A house divided: These couples rep rival Black colleges, and it’s all love (except on game day)

Rivalries among historically Black colleges and universities can get intense with bragging rights at stake, and having a significant other who attends a rival school can amplify the pressure. However, the most polarizing HBCU rivalries can still produce lasting, loving relationships – even as couples maintain their individual allegiances to their respective alma maters.

In honor of Valentine’s Day, Andscape spoke with several couples who attended rival HBCUs. Interviews have been edited for length and clarity.

Dr. Jasmyn and Justice Woods Perret

Jasmyn and Justice Woods Perret met at a regional conference for Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority Inc. in Washington, D.C. She was there representing her sorority, and he was there to participate in a step show as a member of Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity Inc. They dated for nine years and got married in 2022.

Justice is a first-generation Howard University graduate. Jasmyn is a third-generation Hampton University graduate but earned her doctorate at Howard.

How do you balance the Howard-Hampton rivalry within your family?

Justice Woods Perret: You’re the brunt of the joke about everything. I’m the “other.” … It is fun at the end of the day. I love my family — you know, they [Jasmyn’s family] are my family now — and the rivalry makes it fun because I think we can celebrate both HBCUs. [Her relatives are] super unique, super successful in everything that they do. I’m proud to be a part of a legacy in their family, what they have created from Hampton. I’m proud to have my own legacy and to see what they have built because I can now start to see those roots kind of grow and permeate.

Jasmyn Woods Perret: He is often in those situations. It’s like if my family’s going he’s gonna be the one [Howard alum] that’s with the Hampton people but he’ll wear Bison [clothing]. He’ll make it clear. Unfortunately, they [Howard] lost [the Invesco QQQ Legacy Classic] but he was screaming for his team, even though everyone else in the box was cheering for the other team. … Sometimes I’ll sit quiet in those moments because I really do feel bad because of my mom screaming for Hampton, and he’s screaming for Howard. I just sit there and hope for the best.

As a couple how do you combine your love and fandom for both schools?

Justice Woods Perret: I think what makes us unique is our kind of legacy, right? So I don’t have, like, family members who went to Howard but I’ve been kind of ingratiated on a lot of levels within Howard, working with the university in multiple capacities.

It was a big deal for me to go to Howard. … I had a recognition for Hampton and its legacy when I was at Howard. … I went down that first year we were dating to their homecoming – it’s literally about legacy. It’s about a family affair with Hampton, and that’s something that they highlight even more so than most HBCUs that I’ve been around. So I have a big appreciation for the university even [though] I have very strong ties to Howard.

Jasmyn Woods Perret: I wear Howard sweatshirts all the time. My husband went there, I went there for my doctorate and my sorority was founded there. So I love Howard, but I know my roots and my loyalty. If I have to pick, it’s Hampton. But I think that both HBCUs represent the best of the best. It’s definitely a different feel on both campuses, but there are so many similarities, and we try and share that with our peers all the time. We have this conversation with people, especially when they first meet us. They’re like, “wait, you’re with a Hampton girl?” or “you’re with the Howard guy” all the time. So most of the time we’re like, guys, they’re actually more similar than different. And as someone who went to both schools, I can attest to them.

What’s your favorite Howard-Hampton memory from college?

Justice Woods Perret: [At one] Howard-Hampton game, we were strolling and doing everything. The [Hampton] band is playing. It’s halftime. They see us over there and so the guy with the flag is, like, running by and he tries to run right by our side and, like, swipe the flag in our faces. … So we snatch the flag and we just roll it up, put it behind the wall and stand there and look at him, like, “What are you gonna do about it?” Not a single person had nothing to say.

We’re good dudes, so after a few minutes we were just like, “Hey, you can have your flag back now.” But it’s one of those moments where it’s like, look, we come in to support our team. We do respect the space, we respect everything else, but you will respect us, too.

Jasmyn Woods Perret: My best friend went to Howard, so I was often at Howard [during] undergrad. Alpha Stone [is this party] in D.C. at Club Love that doesn’t exist anymore. … That was one of the parties that was Hampton-Howard, so it was cool for me because I would get to see my best friend and her crew, and I would be able to bring my crew. You got to see some new boys at the other school and, you know, it was always a good time.

Charles Vickers Jr. and Jessica Kennedy Vickers

Charles Vickers Jr. and Jessica Kennedy Vickers met nearly 19 years ago at Tougaloo College in Jackson, Mississippi, during a summer engineering program for high school students. After realizing they had relatives that knew one another, the two remained friends before starting to date during college, with him at Alcorn State University and her at Jackson State University. During college, Charles was a member of Alcorn’s Sounds of Dyn-O-Mite marching band, and on his off days he drove from Alcorn in Lorman, Mississippi, to Jackson to see Jessica. They married in 2016.

Jessica is very familiar with the Southwestern Athletic Conference schools’ rivalry, as her mother attended Alcorn State and her father attended Jackson State. Jessica’s grandfather, Levern Kennedy, was inducted in the Alcorn State University Athletics’ Hall of Fame. With Jackson State in the SWAC East and Alcorn State in the SWAC West, Charles hopes to see the schools square off in a SWAC championship game. 

What was it like dating someone who went to a rival college?

Charles Vickers Jr.: End of the day it’s right down the road, so, you know, it’s kind of common for people to actually date at Alcorn and Jackson. I mean, we talk noise all day. It kind of is what it is. We’re kind of like enemies. If we’re on the field or we’re on the court, it’s always “go time,” but other than that, it’s all good.

Jessica Kennedy Vickers: If you poll almost any family in Mississippi, they’ll have both [Jackson State and Alcorn State graduates]. … My mom is an Alcornite. My dad is a Jacksonian, so it’s like I saw it with my parents. It just kind of happened that I’m the only one of my siblings that married the enemy.

What are your ground rules for balancing the Jackson State-Alcorn State rivalry?

Jessica Kennedy Vickers: Homecoming is the biggest one, and everyone is always surprised, like, “Jessica, you aren’t going down to Lorman?” No! My friends are always asking, “Where is Charles?” [I say] “At his homecoming.” Attending [each other’s] homecoming is a big no-no. … [For the] Jackson State and Alcorn game we can come together. We hang out so we can bring our two friend groups together and talk noise.

Charles Vickers Jr.: Jackson State is not my home – I have nothing to come home to. I don’t desire Jackson to be my home, so I will not be attending homecoming.

How do you decide which side you sit on for the Soul Bowl / Capital City Classic?

Charles Vickers Jr.: So this past season I ended up sitting on the Jackson State side, and we won and they hated me. It was me and about 2,000 Jackson State fans around, and every last one of them knew me before I left talking all noise. Because that’s the thing I told her: If you’re gonna make me sit over there, you gotta win because if you don’t win you’re going to hate me when it’s over. 

You have to know me and her dad. We don’t care if it’s football, basketball, grocery shopping – if it’s Alcorn versus Jackson State you want to win, and we want the other person to lose. 

Would you root for the other person’s team if they were in the Celebration Bowl?

Charles Vickers Jr.: It’s SWAC love in the Celebration Bowl. You root for the SWAC, but when the game was over and [Jackson State] lost, oh, it was horrible. … I can root for the SWAC, but I can’t root for Jackson State. Some things are just off-limits and once you put on the purple and gold you don’t [root] for Jackson State.

Jessica Kennedy Vickers: During the game he has this thing. Because his team isn’t playing he’s analyzing it from a football perspective. So he’s pointing out during the game things that Jackson State [was] doing badly. … I’m like, I don’t want to hear that because I am a fan. Positive thoughts. I don’t need the negativity. Sit down, sir, and cheer.

Juan and Gwendolyn Avery

Though Gwendolyn attended North Carolina Central to obtain her master’s degree, she remains loyal to North Carolina A&T. The Averys have two children who also attended HBCUs: Their daughter attended Hampton University while their son went to North Carolina A&T – a decision that made Gwendolyn extremely happy. 

When you go to the Aggie-Eagle Classic which side do you sit on?

Gwendolyn Avery: We have gone to the game in person and I always tell him, “You know I’m not [sitting] on the Eagle side.” When we went to the Aggie-Eagle Classic last year we kind of sat behind the field goal, so it was neutral.

Juan Avery: I told her next time we’re sitting on the Eagle side. We have sat on the Aggie side, and our youngest is a part of the reason. He goes to A&T.

Did you advocate for your children to choose your alma mater for college?

Gwendolyn Avery: My daughter, Sara, graduated from Hampton University. We told her, “If you want to go to a different school, you got to get a scholarship,” and she pretty much got a full ride to Hampton, so that’s how she ended up there. My son, Zavier, he got a full ride to A&T.

Juan Avery: We don’t keep it too serious. We always push HBCUs. We told them, “Go where you want to go,” but we told them about our experience at HBCUs and our love for HBCUs. … They could’ve went to [North] Carolina, Wake Forest – they could have went anywhere, but they chose [Hampton and North Carolina A&T]. … In the end we all went to HBCUs, and I know at least in my mind — I think my wife’s mind, too — that’s kind of what we wanted for them, to have those experiences.

How intense was the Central-A&T rivalry when you were in school?

Gwendolyn Avery: I was in school 1988-1992. One year we came back to campus one evening and next thing you know, we were on the news because that’s when A&T and Central had that big fight. The year after that is when they moved [the rivalry game] off campus, and their games were at the Greensboro Coliseum. So I think there’s still some rivalry there. Sometimes when the games are on it’s still tense. … When we went to the game last night on campus, you have Central and A&T, you know, kind of going back and forth talking, but it was fun. It was all in fun.”

Juan Avery: In my mind, football games were so intense. I always feel like a basketball game was more intense when I was at Central. At that time, I was actually at Central the time Coach [LeVelle] Moton was playing. At that point A&T wasn’t really a rival because we were winning everything. … But [there was] smack-talking amongst people, normally just joking. Black people, we can kind of joke on each other.

Gwendolyn Avery: “He won’t say anything if his team wins. I’m right here, like, why he won’t say anything? He never boasts, never brags about when they win. … He’s always so humble, but I’m the one – when A&T wins– I’m bragging like, “Yeah, look at those Aggies.”

Juan Avery: I love Central, just what it has done for me. As a young man, I had some great, great professors. They really looked out for me … and made me feel like it was a family. So I’m always gonna be feeling some type of special way about them.

Destiny Thomas and Skyler Perry

In August of 2021 Destiny Thomas, then a volleyball player at University of Arkansas-Pine Bluff, met Skyler Perry, at the time starting quarterback for the Golden Lions, in the university’s cafeteria. They became friends and began supporting each other at home football and volleyball games. Mutual friends pushed Perry and Thomas to start dating after learning they were both from Louisiana.

Thomas transferred to Grambling State University in 2022, but because she attended Grambling State and Arkansas-Pine Bluff, she still represents both schools. Perry and Thomas have a 2-month-old daughter named Skylynn. 

How intense was the UAPB-Grambling State rivalry when you were in school?

Destiny Thomas: Volleyball-wise was always fun because [UAPB] used to be my old team. Every time I play against them, the energy [is] fired up. We have the gym hype. lt would just be a great atmosphere to play in because you have so much tension going on. Football-wise, I was just watching [Skyler] play. I was never able to make a football game because I was always on the road. We will hype each other up.

Skyler Perry: I feel it’s a big [rivalry] but sometimes gets overlooked when both teams may not be having a good season. Even with that teams get up to play for bragging rights since we’re so close in distance. My freshman year and junior year playing football against Grambling at UAPB I lost in double overtime, then we dominated for the spring and fall of 2021. I always still tease her about those [wins].

How do you balance the competition between your schools with your relationship?

Destiny Thomas: When it comes down to going hard about both, I go hard about both. I’ll rep UAPB always because I played there, my friends are there [and] my linesisters. [Grambling] finished it off, so they always have my heart. … I get invited to everything on both sides. I’m like, “Oh my gosh, [which event] do I want to make this time or who am I going to hang out with?” I’m gonna go to both homecomings this year.

Skyler Perry: It’s just a little friendly competition since we both competed once upon a time, just some trash-talking for real. Everything we do we try to have fun with it, which makes things interesting, and each of us wants to engage more. When UAPB beats Grambling, I’m not gonna let it go until the next matchup in whatever because I root hard for the home team. We may shake on who is paying for some lunch or doing something crazy if you lose the bet.

Which school’s team gear will your daughter wear?

Destiny Thomas: I think because we both went to UAPB, she definitely will be repping UAPB. But when she comes with me to Grambling, she’s wearing Grambling.

Skyler Perry: UAPB.